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Jerad

Yes. So this is episode number three of TBD. To Be Determined, it's a low intervention wine and craft spirits podcast. I'm Jared J and I’m with my associate Mike, who has finally been able to get his, kinks worked out

Mike Amidei

Yes. Kinks officially worked out.

Jerad

Our official guest today is Mary Bartlett from Future Gin in California. How's it going?

Mary Bartlett

It's good. It's sunny over here. And the ice cream man just left my block so you don’t hear that.

Jerad

Yeah, my son is having a nap right now, so I think the timing just worked out perfect today. Cool. So give us a little background on yourself, and then, um and then we'll talk about the gin.

Mary Bartlett

Well, I'm a bartender. I bartended for about a decade and managed bars. I started in Portland, Oregon. So I feel like that's kind of where a lot of craft distilling happened. So that was always a part of how I learned everything. I mean, I remember aviation gin launching. I was still a cocktail server then. So, yes, I came up in that world...with wine all around us and beer...but was definitely focused on cocktails. And then I moved to  Los Angeles. I’d say it’s been like seven years ago now, six or seven. I managed this amazing bar downtown called Honeycut. It was a nightclub cocktail bar. With the people from Proprietors (Death & Co). So really nice cocktails, but extreme, high volume. It was such a great introduction to Los Angeles. Then I ended up at the Ace Hotel as the beverage director there. Probably two months into working there, I was talking to my director, and I was like, who picks the wine? And she's like, you do! Oh, shit. I was definitely way into spirits, but I had to do a quick educational pivot. I luckily inherited a program where they were already buying a lot from Amy Atwood. I think Amy just saw how much I wanted to learn and that I was buying a lot, so I needed to know really quickly, what was good? So I got to go on all these great trips withAmy so we became fast friends, and also i got really deep into natural wine. I feel guilty for the amazing trips that I got to go on because of that. I learned a lot. It kind of meshed already with my ideals. I grew up in Fresno, the most industrial farming. Everyone has asthma. It's gross. So, I was already into that, and everything kind of just came together. And then, after we got back from a trip, Amy was like, “do you want to make gin?” I got my first bar job talking about gin. I was just geeking out so hard about classic gin cocktails I love. I've always loved gin. I think it was just the thing in my parents liquor cabinet that they hated. So they never noticed that I was drinking it, but like somehow I just never crossed that line where it was like, I can't come back to gin. It was just always like, well, yeah, I feel terrible, but I want it again. So yeah, I feel like my love of gin is very organic. A lot of people that I know that are into wine also drink gin as a spirit of choice. So Amy and I started making it. We brought in Natasha and Freya, who also started coolhaus ice cream. Amy was friends with Freya & Natasha already, I think, because the LA lesbian food and beverage community is very small. I had actually worked with Freya & Natasha on this spritz project through Proprietors. I was doing consulting for my old bosses, and they were working on a bottled spritz, so I had worked with them totally separately. So it's just like amazing...stars aligning. Yeah, it was. And I definitely had seen, especially working in the places that I worked, I had seen so many people launch products and I did not envy that work. It's so hard

Jerad

That's a lot of boots on the ground and a lot of banging down doors, right?

Mary Bartlett

Yeah, it is. It's so hard, and so like, part of the reason I was really hesitant. And even though I was really excited, I was also hesitant to start Future Gin. It was only because of the partners that I was like, okay, let's do this. And I was super naive. So I thought somehow that we had skipped over some of the grueling part because I was like, well, my partner is a distributor and you know, Natasha & Frey have all this experience. So, like...

Jerad

...checking things off the list...

Mary Bartlett

And then I took over running, I mean, we were all doing it as a side project, and I quit my job at the end of this last year. So I've been running it full time now, and I I think that I'm finally seeing the other side of that coin, where it's like, well, if I had started and done all of those little things myself, I would know a lot more today, but instead I'm having to, like, catch up, really fast, and I'm learning how to run a company. And we already have multiple states and zero employees. So I'm like, I feel like I'm kind of paying for it a little bit right now.

Jerad

It's good, though, your lean, right? They say to be as lean as possible.

Mary Bartlett

Very lean. I mean, on the other side, like during all of this Coronavirus shutdown I'm most grateful that I don't have employees. Just the relief I feel for only having to worry about myself in this moment. I don't envy it.

Jerad

It's difficult. It's a hard thing. It's a lot of weight that can be on your shoulder sometimes. It's worth it, though. That's the thing. There is that give & take, you know? But it's times like this, I think...that’s the hard part. You know? Just trying to make the right decision sometimes can be hard. Because the things you do now could affect later. But yes. How are you guys doing? In what ways has it been changing the way you're thinking? Or has it changed the way you're thinking?

Mary Bartlett

Yeah! It's changed a lot. I was supposed to be in Vegas with you one week, and instead I'm now learning a lot about e commerce, which is, I know it's going to be so valuable, all of the digging in and learning that I'm doing right now, but it's, you know, frustrating. Everything is moving online. So I'm just digging in and trying to learn as much as I can and move quickly. We're trying to find different ways to connect with people and different ways to support our accounts. Whether that's helping to raise money for bars and restaurants, you know in the hopes that they'll be able to reopen or just to support the people that are out of work right now, that's important. And then also with retail. Our bottle does really well in retail. I think it's pretty..

Jerad

I think it looks beautiful

Mike Amidei

It definitely stands out on the shelf

Mary Bartlett

I think it looks beautiful, obviously, but it does very well in retail, so we're lucky in one way that we have all these retail accounts that are still operating. And then on the other side, [Jerad: on premise], yeah exactly. Well, we lose that. But even retail...places that didn't do a majority of their business online, it's like, Is this a time when I really want to reach out and ask someone who's already strapped to add me to their online listing? You know, it's like the balance of being like pushing and just being supportive.

Jerad

It’s a hard level right now, I think, to try to escape that,

Mary Bartlett

Yeah, and on the bartender side, I think that because we're a liquor brand and most liquor brands people are familiar with, even on the bar side, are owned by, like Bacardi and Pernod and all these companies. So I get a lot of requests for a lot of money right now...

Jerad

For promos...sponsorships.

Mary Bartlett

All this stuff. So I'm trying to find a way to help, but also trying not to [Jerad: break the bank] Yeah, I'm like, I can’t ! I will absolutely fail, and there will be no more money for me to spend at all. I mean, my salary is already cut. Of course, I'm totally happy to do that, to keep my business afloat and it feels better to do that, but it's hard. It's hard to be like, No, I know you're out of work, but also, I have nothing to give you, you know?

Jerad

Yeah. It's hard. Being a natural wine, very small, very new, fringe natural/low intervention distributor here in Nevada...we’re the first that’s doing it. So I'm running into a lot of the same conversations. “Oh, well, you know, can you give me this. And can you get this for free? And can you give me, you know, how about you give us this and that”, and I'm just like, well, no, you can do that with, you know, like you were saying, those bigger brands. For us, it’s like….no, this is craft. This is stuff that we can stand behind. This is different. This is a different product, and that's hard. With wine they've been able to differentiate that quality but with spirits it might be maybe a little bit harder to do, right? 

Mary Bartlett

So, some of our partners, and clients totally get it, and I'm so grateful. But you're right. You're right. I don't think that people see that, which is okay, It's not their business. So, yeah, I do think it's different, differentiating between that. And I think that if we don't protect ourselves right now, then there will be no craft.

Jerad

I agree. You’ve got to stick to your guns. We have to. On a lot of things. It's hard sometimes, walking away from, you know, potentially a good account. But you know, if it’s a good fit, it’s a good fit and if it's not a good fit, then how does that help the brand in the long run, right?

Mary Bartlett

Yeah, for sure. And also, I'm just trying to approach everyone with a lot of empathy and that's been really helpful for me. And when I received things just being like, “everyone having a hard time”. I'm just trying to give everyone the benefit of the doubt that everyone's coming from a place of love.

Jerad

We're all in this together, or just at different levels trying to figure it out, you know? So I guess let's go back to the gin. I know It's purely California. What was the thought on that and how did that come about in the botanical selection and the fun stuff.

Mary Bartlett

The Gin category now is so huge, but when we think of gin, we are still thinking about London Dry. As a bartender, and a lover of classic cocktails, I love London Dry. What I love about it is really high juniper, lots of Citrus, high enough proof that you can do a lot of things with it. But what's kind of crazy is that everything that makes it great, we do so well in California or the West Coast, way better than, like, really gloomy London or the UK. There was something in that. That was the driver. We wanted something that works as London Dry, high juniper, juicy, though like a little bit of sweet flavors. No sweetness but sweet flavors. Also just with the idea that, as a bartender, you make these classic gin drinks, and it's like, you pick up the same bottle for as long as you are a bartender...so I wanted to give another option. Something that would work. So I worked really hard to make sure that it worked as a cocktail spirit. That if you took a bottle home, you wouldn't need another bottle for a different cocktail. So, yeah, like juicy California Citrus. The botanical mix is probably about, like 50- 50 on classic London dry ingredients and things we just played with. I think one of the best examples of that would be avocado leaves, which we talk about a lot. We played with it. It's classic in Mexican cuisine to cook with avocado leaves and we have them. We basically just looked into whether or not it was poisonous and then just played with it.

Jerad

And it’s not, right? Just just to dogs?

Mary Bartlett

1. It's not. It's not

Mike Amidei

So you just can’t give it to your dog

Mary Bartlett

 I think probably the avocado came out of us just like spitballing and being like...avocados! And we're like, we don't want to use avocados. And then it was like, I wonder what the leaf does? That's cool in there. So there's avocado leaves, grape leaves, the Citrus in it is Meyer lemon and grapefruit. Meyer lemon, which is lemon and mandarin orange. But when we started this, I thought it was just lemon and orange. But it's a hybrid between lemon and mandarin orange. It's named after a guy named Meyer, also, which is why it’s all capitalized. [Jerad: I didn’t know that. Mike: I didn’t know that either} So I didn't I didn't know either. But Meyer Lemon is so classically Southern California. Other warm climates, too. But it's like to the point that we have them sitting in my kitchen right now, because all my neighbors have given me Meyer lemons this week. Just I'm lucky. I love it but it’s like, “what am I gonna do with all of this beautiful citrus”!

Jerad

and there is honeysuckle too, right?

Mary Bartlett

Yeah, Honeysuckle. I mean, I love honeysuckle. It's in some other spirits that I really like a lot. So some of this just came front throwing out all the botanical spirits that we know we like, all the botanicals that we like in other areas,  and then kind of seeing what stuck. I did hear from a distiller in, I think he's from Sacramento,  that he told me that 2% of the population thinks that honeysuckle tastes like cat piss smells. So I guess I'm not in that minority, and none of my partners are. I also don't know if that's true, because I didn't look into it because it was way too late.

Jerad

Also, I use cilantro in everything that I make, and I really feel bad for the people that tastes soap. That’s so sad.

Mary Bartlett

He told me that and I just was like, you know, not everyone's gonna like this.

Mike Amidei

It’s only 2%. That's not bad.

Jerad

Good thing is, sometimes and this is weird. Sometimes that could be a favorable note for certain wine, for different things. Some people will get that and they enjoy it. It sounds weird. I don't get it. This flavor people, like me, like I smell everything before I eat it. So I'm always trying to figure out and catalogue all these little things in my head all the time. Mike is similar too.

Mary Bartlett

Do you think that the gin taste like cat piss?  

Jerad

No, absolutely not!

Mike Amidei

That hasn't been one of our tasting notes so far...

Jerad

I get a lot of honeysuckle. I get a lot of Meyer lemon. Not sure what avocado leaf tastes like?

Mary Bartlett

It's kind of green and fatty. What's been what's been so interesting, especially as I've gotten to go out in the market more. People taste completely different things. And a lot of times I'm working with people that buy wine and natural wines, who are used to tasting. I'll go from one account where they're like, “Oh, I love that the juniper is so soft”, and I'm like, Is it? It's really high! Then I go somewhere else and they’re like, “Oh, the junipers so high, I like that it's bold.” I'm like, OK, it seems so dependent on the person.

Jerad

Yeah sometimes it's that complexity, right? I deal with coffee a lot and at different temperatures your mouth can perceive the aroma, you perceive different flavors at different temperatures, so it could be partly that everyone's unique, different life experience. 

Mary Bartlett

I think this is the perfect time for me to do that temperature experiment with all of my downtime

Jerad

It’s pretty cool. We do it with coffee a lot because it changes. And obviously coffee is an easy one because you brew it hot and then eventually it cools. So everyone is like, Oh, well, the coffee is changing….well,  is it the coffee that's changing? Or is it my perception of the coffee changing?

Mary Bartlett

That would be good to know though also, just because sometimes our reps, they're carrying around wine as well. They asked me if they should put it in with the whites. And I'm like, I don't know. I don't know what you should do.

Jerad

Yeah, When we walk with it we leave it at room temperature, but it hasn't been summertime yet. We just brought it on and Vegas gets really hot. But if it's in the bag with the wine, um, generally, it's gonna be...

Mary Bartlett

One thing that happens which I don't know if you have seen yet if you're leaving at room temp, but it does lightly louche. Have you seen that? [Mike: Interesting. Jerad: What's louche?] It's when you put water into absinthe and it gets milky. We didn't chill filter it, which is rare. And now that I've said it, you're gonna see this whenever you look at spirits. And I guess chill filtering right now is a big thing in whiskeys. So I think that maybe consumers are getting more into it. But we didn't chill filter it, which is an optional part of the distillation process, but it uses a lot of energy and a lot of water, and it removes flavour. So what happens is the oils. So our gin has a ton of oil from the leaves, but also the Citrus. That's all alcohol soluble, but it's not water soluble, so as soon as you add water, but also temperature will make it break a little. So if you stir it into a martini, it's a little opalescent. I think it looks cool, but I know a lot of bigger brands don't want that. They don't want that question about it, so they strip it out. I have to be honest about it and say that it was a choice because I liked the flavor and how it gave this great mouth feel. I think it's really full. I learned about it being the more environmentally friendly choice when I already wanted to make it so that just kind of was like giving me permission to do what I wanted.

Jerad

That’s cool. I’m learning so much

Mary Bartlett

I did not know about any of this and I would say like I went to lots of distilleries.  was very into what was in my bottles when I was bartending….and I learned so much while trying to make this product.

Jerad

Yes, that happens with wine as well. It's like cold, stabilisation kind of thing. I wonder if it's a similar process.

Mary Bartlett

Yeah, it is, you know, i feel like in wine sometimes it just kind of..

Jerad

Not in the wines we carry!..

Jerad

But yeah, it's a process. Obviously it’s not a low intervention process. I don't think any of the producers, definitely the producers we work with, do it, but it's ..It's probably because of the energy…

Mary Bartlett

Or they at least don't do it to the wines that you're getting. I mean, I feel like some producers have to do it in their home markets. Do different things

Jerad

We are not dogma by any means. We have stuff all across the board, but we do have kind of like our values of what we source, and what we're excited about. And in general, I think a lot of producers that do some techniques that may be, not necessarily bad, but just not aligned with our values. We just kind of say, You know, maybe we're not a good fit for each other. It's not a bad thing.

Mike Amidei

It’s all about transparency.

Mary Bartlett

What are your spirits values?

Jerad

For spirits it's very similar. In general the simplest way to word it is transparency really. With wine, it's across the board. We have winemakers that use sulfates, We have winemakers that may be sourced fruit that may not be fully organic or fully handpicked. Or they may do filtering on some of their wines. But in general, they're very transparent about what they're doing, Why they're doing it. I think that is more important than having some sort of certification. For us it's about the craft and the quality. And if you're going to say I did this and this is why I did it and we agree with that then? For wine and and for spirits like it's got to be number one, it's got to be exciting and it has to be made within those very wide constraints. But in general…

Mary Bartlett

I definitely believe in the saying, what's in it? You know, that sort of policy. And for me, it's like a policy of no secrets. So when I train people, I just make sure I'm like, you can ask. You could literally ask me any questions. I haven't yet gotten one that I'm not willing to answer. And I can't even think of one. Yeah, on the business side or the production or any of that. And I think that keeping that in mind also just keeps me honest about, like, doing what  is best for the product.

Jerad

And what we think is right. Just doing the right thing. Essentially at the end of the day, you know, I'm baking bread and I sell coffee and wine, and these are like, craft things that I don't know why, but in general I think we all just want a little bit more transparency of what we're buying, what we're putting into our bodies. But not just that, we are kind of nerdy, and we want to learn about how it's made and why it tastes so crazy.

Mike Amidei

And to take it back to the people that are actually making it, and knowing that it's not coming from this faceless corporation. It’s actually people that we know that are making the product and that's important to us as well.

Jerad

I think in this climate, even more than any other time, we have to vote with our dollars, right? So we have to support the producers and the retail shops and the restaurants and everything that we believe in. Because if we don't, the people or the corporations with all the money are gonna just take over everything, and then we won't have the diversity and the fun, and you know, those experiences.

Mary Bartlett

Yeah, definitely. It’s been interesting all the time. We all get to think right now. And luckily, plenty of time to try to source my purchases a little bit better. But I think that Mother Nature is giving us some pretty clear signs. [Jerad: Warning signs?]. Yeah, I think she's in power. So I think it's a good time to be drinking natural wine...and craft gin!

Mike Amidei

Being thoughtful in everything for sure.

Jerad

How many states is Future Gin in right now?

Mary Bartlett

You will be the fifth

Jerad

Cool. And, um,

Mike Amidei

All domestic?

Mary Bartlett

Export? Not yet.

Jerad

Are you guys planning on it or just kind of seeing where everything goes?

Mary Bartlett

Yeah, we are. But I think plans are a bit of a joke right now, but yes. We were expecting to do a lot of growth right now. And so, just trying to, like, change with everything changing, be as fluid as we can be and adapt. We still have some plans, but also I don't know exactly what will happen.

Jerad

The cool thing with gin is it'll last forever, right? There's no expiration or does it degrade over time? Or get better? 

Mary Bartlett

I don't think so. I mean, I'm sure it changes at some point, but, like not any time soon, it's one of the reasons we chose to have a synthetic cork in the bottle was to make sure it could also last. Something I think people don't realize is some of your older spirits that have corks do go bad. [Jerad: Oxidize] Yeah, or if there's something in your cork, which I know it's a lot less common now, but I definitely have had some, corked whiskey. Because if you think about how that high proof can extract flavor, it's...

Jerad

It’s going to suck flavor out of anything right? Anything that’s porous.

Mary Bartlett

No, I'm not not worried about the product lasting. I mean, at some point, we're going to need to make more. We're not quite there yet. We did put off our next distillation. It was supposed to be happening in the next week. So I don't really know the realities of that. If we'll have issues with that or not. So yeah, so I don't know. I don't know what's happening. I feel hopeful. I feel like what's great for our brand is that people have a lot of time to pay attention to what they're buying. And our brand is so honest. I feel hopeful that as long as we keep just talking about what it is that this time will ultimately be better for us.

Mike Amidei

Yeah continue telling that story. Have you noticed in the five states that you're in that there are  differences in tastes geographically? You know what I mean? 

Mary Bartlett

Oh, my gosh, Yes, definitely. I think it's less about the gin and more about how you serve it. Gin is a cocktail spirit, which is why people have such strong opinions. I believe. This is obviously all my opinion. I believe people base  their opinion on gin generally on how it's served to them. So, some places definitely like some more sugar. And then you have places like over here where we are in LA, and especially the part of L.A. that everyone I know is in. It's like they want nothing. They want gin and soda, maybe a slice of fruit, but like no sugar, they're happy for the flavor. That's it.

Jerad

Yeah, I'm a gin and soda, maybe fruit. Or maybe if the tonics like high quality good tonic, just a splash. Um, but I thought, like, what is everyone else?

Mary Bartlett

Sometimes,  internally,  at Future Gin we say gin and sonic, which is a mix of soda and tonic. So it's less sweet, but it actually comes from my mom and her cousins. They were getting really drunk on vodka sonics, and she kept texting my brother and me. We were just teasing her because the sonic isn't a thing. It's not a thing.  it's not a thing. And now I'm using it professionally, and I feel so bad.

Jerad

Yeah, because it's hard to describe. Like I have, like, some places where I can go. I have friends who have bars, and I'm like, and it becomes a sentence. It's like, all right, I want this gin, soda, slash tonic and a lime. And then

Mary Bartlett

You want a Sonic, Jerad!

Jerad

I feel like I’m at Starbucks….sorry about this order...

Mike Amidei

Trademark pending

Mary Bartlett

All right, so you're on Team Sonic. I can count you in  for branding our new beverage.

Jerad

What are some other popular drinks like that are on the other side of the spectrum?

Mike Amidei

What do the “sweet people” want?

Jerad

What are the sweet gin drinkers like?

Mary Bartlett

Cucumber! I think they like a lot of something sweet. Could just be simple syrup with something tart. But then, like a lot of another flavor. I think people who drink a lot of sweeter drinks like to conceal some of the boozier notes. So I think cucumber does that very well. I feel like Rose is one that I see a lot of

Jerad

things about Future Gin is it's not very hot. It doesn't taste hot to me at all.

Mary Bartlett

I think that that's the roundness somehow, like balances it. I mean, I don't I don't think it tastes super hot. I also don't think, this might sound weird, I don't think it tastes very angular. I think it's like a lot of round favors.

Jerad

I know what you mean. Yeah, I used lasers. That's that's the same thing. But it's definitely not. Yeah, like laser flavors. It's more, round, soft, you could say feminine. However, you want a word it. 

Mary Bartlett

I personally have this strong aversion to rose. Maybe like some people with honeysuckle or cilantro. I really hate Rose and...

Mike Amidei

Does it remind you of Grandmas?

Mary Bartlett

Yeah, How vulgar am I allowed to be here?

Jerad

As vulgar as you want...

Mary Bartlett

I always say that cocktails like that taste like going down on grandma.

Mike Amidei

And there it is...

Jerad

We actually make a rose tea drink at our cafe in Vegas, and it's our top selling non coffee drink.

Mary Bartlett

People love it. and I know in small quantities, I also like rose...but sometimes I get it and it’s just too perfumy.

Mike Amidei

As part of an overall flavor I can see it maybe, but as like the primary component just so singular…

Jerad

What happens depending on the producer is, are they using a real botanical? Or are they using some sort of concentrate?

Mary Bartlett

That's very interesting. I was recently thought about that because, I get all sorts of questions about the production, and I think people are a lot more. I think people are educated, and like I get a lot of great, very detailed questions. But no one ever asks me if it's all real ingredients like organic material, which ours is. Which is why I think that maybe it blends like that. But like I think rose basically, I know you can distill it, but I think a lot of the rose flavors that are really pungent or what you're saying, like I think they're like flavor lab flavor.

Jerad

Yeah, and that happens. And when we were doing R & D for this drink, it was the same thing We had to source botanicals from Oregon and just for this one drink and we buy this whole farm’s, rose petals. It's really weird.

Mary Bartlett

Thanks cool. Oregon makes great roses.

Jerad

And what's crazy is,  we buy them and they come in these huge, maybe, three foot by three foot boxes. And it's just a big bag inside the box, like knotted up with rose petals. We don't have anywhere in the cafe to put it except my office. So they open it, they'll take like, a pound out and then fold up the bag and throw it in my office. So, like the first week that that shipment comes in, I just have a headache in my office. It smells like grandmas….yeah.

Mike Amidei

Leave it there…

Mary Bartlett

I like the smell of roses. I just don't want to consume it all the time.

Jerad

Yeah, we mix it with cardamom. Cardamom is really cool with Rose as well. They are very complimentary.

Mary Bartlett

Somone suggested gin and tonic botanicals before I was talking to you guys and I was just thinking about how delicious cardamom is, so that's always a good one. And...

Jerad

Cardamom is cool for tonics as well

Mike Amidei

How about Sonics? For the botanicals you guys use...how do you use the Citrus? You juicing the Citrus or you only using the peels?

Mary Bartlett

It's just peel. We kind of have a hybrid style of making the gin. So we have four of the botanicals, including the juniper that are steeped. Then everything else, including the Citrus, is in the basket. So a lot of times, you know you do one or the other for gin making, but we do like a little combo of both.

Jerad

And then with the final selection of all the botanicals, did you guys fight about it? Or is there a singular vision, or how did that all go?

Mary Bartlett

It was honestly such a great process. It's the four of us, plus our distiller, Morgan. We met every two weeks for like nine months tasting different versions. We did a lot of...I created the original list of saying like, these are all the things I want to play with and then worked with Morgan on it. Then we would taste single distillates or combinations. We tested a lot of things that didn't end up working. And so, every two weeks, we would be trying new things, and I don't think that we fought about anything. And I think, you know, we're all happy with the final formula. We are all very outspoken women and it was just so cool to be able to also just work witha group of women, because in food and beverage, we don't usually get to have a group like that.

Jerad

That’s really cool. The distiller, everything. That's great.

Mary Bartlett

it was such a neat process. I had to do the final OK. I definitely lead this, even though it's kind of cool because, you know, Amy is in wine. She tastes wine for a living. And then Freya is with a tea company and she does that. And then Natasha is still running Coolhaus. So she's creating new flavors of ice creams all the time. We have, you know, our distiller and then a bartender. So it's like all these people who taste different things together making it so I think we got some stuff out of that we wouldn't have, normally. People coming from these different flavor backgrounds. But it was so scary to say it was done. It was just...

Jerad

You had to put a stamp on it…

Mary Bartlett

I tasted it for the first 6 months. I tasted every time with a little bit of panic. I was like, I hope I still like this. I hope it's still good. All...

Mike Amidei

How did you come to that final decision where you were all like, Okay, this is the one. As opposed to...maybe we still need to do a little bit of this or that.

Mary Bartlett

Near the end, I brought in a lot of vermouths and other fortified wines, so we had some different versions there, but like I was saying earlier, you know, I'm a bartender, and so I was like, I don't want a gin that doesn't work as gin. So when we were playing with these last few formulas. We like it, but we don't know if we're done. That's where I kind of like, leaned on, well, does it work?. And just, like, really going deep on functionality.

Jerad

Testing different recipe drinks, classic drinks, everything.

Mary Bartlett

Yeah, like the last few versions, and I have a few of those still left, these bottles of the versions before, that I have gone back to taste and be like, “no, we still chose the right one”! But I took them home and really just  made a lot of drinks, and sometimes it was like something tasted really good neat, it tasted really good when we watered it down. Then it turns out that something would pop up where it was like, one note came too strong, by the end we were just dialing percentages. The thing like the thing we played with the most and finally didn't go with is cucumber. And you know, that's in some tasty gins. It's really hard to do. If it's an actual cucumber, you have to distill it a lot of time so that it doesn't taste musty, and then add it in. We just decided we didn't want that and it was not the style we wanted to do. There were a few other things like that that we were playing with. We just finally had decided, that's not it. I think we added some things near the end, like to finish it. I really wanted it to feel like a clear arc. So I know that the grains of paradise and the black pepper came in nearer the end because it felt like it didn't have a final note. So we chose something that would kind of spice it to just finish off the flavor. The other thing that comes out for me all the time is every time we made a new batch, we raise the juniper. We never hit the, “That's way too much” level. We started with a softer level, but still very there, you know? Like still there. And every time I was like, “Let's dial it, let's dial it, Let's dial it”. And I'm glad I'm glad we did that. It's one of the risky things cause it can be really off putting for people if it’s too Juniper-y. But I think it tastes like gin. Which is what I wanted

Jerad

It tastes like gin, yeah, it’s great!  It doesn't. It's not overpowering by any means in my opinion.

Mary Bartlett

Yeah, because there's so much other strong stuff in there

Jerad

Did you try it with any of the Flora?

Mary Bartlett

Flora didn't exist yet. Flora was being made simultaneously. So, like sometimes Amy would meet with Morgan right before our gin tasting, so I would come. You know, I came a little early a few times and got to try the flora renditions and then give two cents. I think I added a bark at some point that ended up sticking in there.

Jerad

Oh, cool.

Mary Bartlett

I was very lucky, because when I worked with Proprietors they had so many cool recipes that already involved things like, oh, I think it was birch. But they played with all of these different botanicals separately. And so, when I was going through education with them I learned about some very nerdy ingredients.

Jerad

Nice, that's good.

Mike Amidei

The deep cuts

Jerad

Here in Nevada. I've always wanted to use our local botanic, our local plant. It is the state plant. A stage brush. It's not a tumbleweed, but it's pretty close. It’s actually got with some really cool aromatics, but it's just so hard to work with. But we've been working on it. So...

Mary Bartlett

What you trying to do?

Jerad

Maybe like a ferment, like some sort of like fermented soda kind of thing? We tried a couple, I made like Hydrosols out of it. I've done bitters out of it. We've done a bunch of different things and nothing really stuck. 

Mary Bartlett

What did it taste like?

Jerad

It’s green... and Woody and almost kind of like numbing medicinal, but it's not really numbing.

Mike Amidei

Is it a part of sage from the culinary uses? It’s it a different plant?

Jerad

I think they're related somehow. But it's definitely a lot hardier. The cool thing about it also is, the plant has this survival mechanism. When a deer, elk or whatever comes to eat it, it transmits some sort of signal through the roots and  then secretes all around it. All the plants around it secretes this bitter flavor, so it's very hard to harvest as well, so it's one of those things. No one's ever done it. But I was like, everyone's talking about local this and foraging and all that. I'm like,  I live in a desert. There's nothing here. We have a couple farms that we source produce from, but, it's really hard. I’m so proud of them for making it happen and like actually getting really good produce. But it's really hard to do here, so I wanted to try to do something that was like, indigenous to the area. One day we'll figure it out, but yeah,

Mary Bartlett

My Loquats are all getting ripe right now.  Outside, we have three local trees, which I have never had till I lived in this exact house. And my goals are way less ambitious. I just was like, I'm gonna add yeast and then I'm going to drink it. That's it. 

Jerad

Yes. So what's the one, tapa...?

Mary Bartlett

Tepache.

Jerad

We make that. So we make that at a cafe all the time. I don't know if we're supposed to sell it, but we don't let it go as far as to create alcohol. Just a little bit of fiss. But that's so good. But a lot of the times you don't even need to add yeast. Champagne yeast is always a really good one with fruit, but a lot of the time the yeast is already there. Just throw it in and give it a few days….

Mary Bartlett

I'm just being impatient. And I have this really weird book from the sixties. That's how to make fruit wines

Jerad

Oh wow.

Mary Bartlett

But it's so stupid because, like almost all the recipes are just like, “Smash up the fruit, add sugar, add yeast” and, like that's it for every fruit.

Mike Amidei

The same recipe just interchange the fruit

Mary Bartlett

I didn't add the sugar cause they're sweet, I definitely added champagne, yeast, but it's also been like sitting in my house for a long time. So, like the yeast? I don't know. I don't know. You're saying I should just macerate all the fruit and just leave it?

Jerad

I'm not pro. Yeah, it'll ferment. Hopefully the yeast will take hold before something else. So put it in a jar and maybe once a day just to give it a little shake so no mold grows. And that would give a chance for the yeast to win first. 

Mary Bartlett

I'll keep you guys in the loop.

Jerad

Loquats.That's a citrus, right?

Mary Bartlett

No, it looks more like an apricot, but it doesn't taste like an apricot. It tastes more tropical. But they have seeds. Kind of like that.

Jerad

Like, um..

Mary Bartlett

Like an apricot. Sometimes multiple seeds. Their a little smoother. And it's juicier.

Jerad

Okay, cool. Yeah, I would try without the pit and just go from there. The skin is where most of the yeast is gonna be. So if they're in your backyard, you're not spraying systemic chemicals on them. Then you'll be fine.

Mary Bartlett

Yeah. No, I imagine they do so we'll see how it goes. Maybe that will be my next thing, I'll be like hey Jared, I have this great Loquat wine to sell you.

Jerad

Yeah, we're not doing any fruit wines. I think the closest thing that we have is, we have some fusion ciders. Which are really good. We actually have a few ciders as well. But we have some ciders that are blended with wine.

Mary Bartlett

I'm totally convinced that my next career is going to be with ugly fruit wine. Just all of the bad fruit in California. And I'm okay with someone stealing this idea. So, you know, I'll tell them the label too. And then the label will have, like, some drunk animals because, you know, that's how animals get drunk. Drunk animal, ugly fruit wine. Someone make it. I'll buy it.

Jerad

Are there any other plans for Future Gin? You guys doing just the one type for now, or did you ever think about doing anything else?

Mary Bartlett

We have one thing. I mean, we're just making the Future Gin, we actually do have one other thing that I can't share yet. I just got super excited about a few weeks ago and have enjoyed this time to work on it. So I do think that we're going to get to release something else, hopefully during the holidays. So I'm hoping, we'll see how everything works if it does. We need the government to open and stuff like that.

Jerad

Yeah, the basics. Mike had a question to ask, and I didn't even know. It's just my lack of knowledge, I guess. Have you guys ever thought about a barrel aged gin? I've never even heard of one. But Mike, likes a bunch of them.

Mike Amidei

There is one in Vermont that’s called Tomcat. It's really good.

Mary Bartlett

Yeah. No, The Tomcat, that is good. I love that company too, they distil from honey.

Mike Amidei

You're right. Yep.

Mary Bartlett

There's an Old Tom gin from Ransom. That was the first popular one when I was bartending in Portland. I don't think we're going to do that. I think that they're there and they taste good and they already exist. Not that there aren’t plenty of other gin's. I mean, we might do something else, but I don't know about the barrel. No, just for what we're doing. I would like to try it just, you know, do an experiment.

Mike Amidei

Yeah, it could take take away from that juicy profile that you are going for.

Mary Bartlett

That's that's kind of what I was thinking. So much about what we talk about with Future Gin is just that, It's bright. It's bright and juicy. So I don't know, that's kind of what it seems to me, but also I haven't tried it. If I could try it in a little, a little barrel. Maybe it's too expensive an experiment to try and a big barrel right now.

Jerad

Maybe like a little like a gallon or so little cocktail barrels.

Mary Bartlett

Yeah. I mean, honestly, I don't know how like some people launched, like, a whole line of products at once. And I understand why, in some ways, that would be easier. But, like, I can't. I cannot imagine that my one little bottle right now is still plenty.

Jerad

So I guess some of the last questions. I have one of them. If you weren't, um, doing Future Gin, what do you think you'd be doing?

Mary Bartlett

I'm really interested in farm work. So I have some things like home studying dreams, which I think everyone does right now. But, I think I would be learning about farming in an active way if I wasn't doing this.

Jerad

It's weird how that works, right? I think everyone, like, is splitting, right. So if there was a spectrum of very basic way of life and very advanced way of life. Everyone is like not doing anything in the middle, but going to both sides like I'm baking bread. I've never baked bread in my life. This month I baked a ton of bread and then I also like, have a podcast. I would've never thought I would do either of those two things. But it's just like I think it's just that we're just trying to get back to the basics and also try to live in this new reality, right? It's crazy.

Mary Bartlett

Yeah, I think everyone's doing this stuff. Like I said, I grew up in Fresno very, very much around this, and my grandfather had grapes. And my parents are like avid gardeners to the point that their retirement home is four acres. They’re doing organic gardening. So I feel like I thought I had escaped it. And as I get older, you know, when you realize that you're becoming your parents, I might be becoming my grandfather. I think some people because of my great love for wine and like how much that pulled me from exclusively being in this craft cocktail world, I think that they're like, are you gonna make wine? And I'm like, No, I'm not. I'm gonna keep drinking wine. I'm gonna keep buying wine. Gonna love wine. But like, I know I'm not going unless it’s  rotten fruit, drunk animal wine.

Mike Amidei

Drunk animals, right? yep.

Jerad

Cool. I like the idea.

Mary Bartlett

Take everyone’s ttrash, and then we get drunk on it.

Mike Amidei

Everybody wins.

Jerad

Yeah, I think it's always the jokes that start out that become, like, the best.

Mary Bartlett

Oh, that's why I'm so into that. My other idea for this product that at some point I will be bringing to you was just a phone conversation with Amy and like, we said something and I was like, “oh! That’s it!” So I would not be surprised if I decided I was doing that. I really like learning about soil health. I really like learning about all these different things that are going on. And I think no matter what if I wasn't doing the gin, I think I would be making my way to something that is related still to agriculture. And I miss doing an active job. That was something that I loved about bartending, and I didn't really realize how important that was, but like doing a little bit of movement all day long is, I think, just like what my body was built for. So I would like to find my way home.

Jerad

Nice. Cool! So can you tell us  how everyone can find out more about Future Gin and your social handles and all that?

Mary Bartlett

Yeah, it's all pretty simple. Social handles are FutureGin. All one word. Website is also futuregin.com and  we put a lot of stuff on instagram. But we're also in the process of building out the whole website so that you'll be able to find cocktail techniques and recipes you can find where you can buy it and all of that stuff. It'll all be there. Right now, it’s about halfway there. So, yeah, that's that's how you can follow along. And also we just started a newsletter so you can subscribe to that through the website.

Jerad

Cool. Thank you for taking some time with us today. It's it's been cool and, yeah, Hopefully we'll see you here in Vegas real soon.

Mary Bartlett

Soon? Yeah, right. When it gets hot, I'll come over.

Mike Amidei

Soon enough.

Mary Bartlett

Well, they thank you both. Looking forward to meeting in person one day.

 

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End Transcript

**The views and opinions expressed within this podcast are those of the hosts & guests, and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of their respective employers or associated businesses. Any content provided by our guests and hosts are of their opinion and are not intended to malign any group, club, organization, company, individual, anyone or anything.